Posts by Old Goat

7

This book is superior. Read it!

by Old Goat in

it will give you an understanding of the watchtower you did not have.. .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvrhws2lnje.

.

Old Goat

It will give you an understanding of the Watchtower you did not have.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVrHwS2LNjE

42

Great Crowd is NOT under the New Covenant...Where does it say this?

by Christ Alone in

i was wondering if there was anywhere someone could point to in the bible for the watchtower belief that the great crowd is not included in the new covenant.

i know that this is their line of thinking when it comes to jesus being mediator.

they say that jesus is only mediator of the new covenant and since the gc is not under the new covenant, jesus is not specifically a mediator to them.

The verse you've quoted is about conversion. A change in status from being a stranger obligated by the land's law covenant to being a convert, a sort of adopted israelite. The fact remains the Old Covenant was with Israel. This really has nothing to do with who is in the new covenant. As I said earlier, God knows his own. It doesn't matter what the watchtower says, believes or teaches. Noone who God saves loses his salvation because of a human teaching.

For the sake of accuracy, even the watchtower teaches that God saves those not in the new covenant. They use 1 john to teach that. On that point i have no argument. God saves through his son. It's that concept that matters to me.

I don't think we can use the old covenant to mirror the new. The new covenant is specifically 'not like' the old one. The old convicted of sin. The new brings salvation. Watchtower teaching is that it is the basis for the salvation of all. Fine. I agree with that. Do I think the parties to the new covenant were limited to a spiritual israel and God with Jesus as mediator? I don't know. The answer rests in what the israel of god is. I'm not sure i see that point as essential anyway. What is essential is God's will to save. No doctrine of men can change that or determin who will be saved or to what destiny.

The two classes of saved argument is an old one, extending back to the 19th Century. I've read the arguments. I know Watchtower doctrine. I remain skeptical of it all though I have my personal preferences. Personal preferences, personal understandings, should remain personal unless they are backed by scripture. I'm unsettled, so I'll leave them unexpressed. However, one should note that benefiting from the old covenant did not make one a party to it. Captive slaves, while not parties to the Law Covenant, benefited in many ways. They were freed from religious prostitution. Their children wouldn't be burned in Molech's furnace. But they were not parties to the covenant.

Your slavation does not depend on your (or anyone else's) understanding of a covenant. It depends on God who saves us through Christ.

42

Great Crowd is NOT under the New Covenant...Where does it say this?

by Christ Alone in

i was wondering if there was anywhere someone could point to in the bible for the watchtower belief that the great crowd is not included in the new covenant.

i know that this is their line of thinking when it comes to jesus being mediator.

they say that jesus is only mediator of the new covenant and since the gc is not under the new covenant, jesus is not specifically a mediator to them.

Old Goat

Typing in caps is no substitute for reason. Exodus 24:2-11 shows that the law covenant was a bilateral covenant made between Israel and God. It wasn't made with anyone else. Others who wanted the benefits had to submit to its ordinances, but they weren't part of the covenant. That the covenant was bilateral is shown by the covenant makers. God was on one side, the representative men of Israel on the other. There were no representatives from the nations outside of Israel.

If you wish to assert something scriptural, use the Bible. Capital letters prove nothing.

42

Great Crowd is NOT under the New Covenant...Where does it say this?

by Christ Alone in

i was wondering if there was anywhere someone could point to in the bible for the watchtower belief that the great crowd is not included in the new covenant.

i know that this is their line of thinking when it comes to jesus being mediator.

they say that jesus is only mediator of the new covenant and since the gc is not under the new covenant, jesus is not specifically a mediator to them.

Old Goat

The old covenant wasn't for all God's people. It was for Israel. That there were others who were God's people is evident in the "stranger" concept found in the law. The alien residents had to keep the law if they lived in Israel, but they were not parties to the covenant and the law made exceptions for them.

42

Great Crowd is NOT under the New Covenant...Where does it say this?

by Christ Alone in

i was wondering if there was anywhere someone could point to in the bible for the watchtower belief that the great crowd is not included in the new covenant.

i know that this is their line of thinking when it comes to jesus being mediator.

they say that jesus is only mediator of the new covenant and since the gc is not under the new covenant, jesus is not specifically a mediator to them.

Old Goat

I'm not going to look for it, mostly because this topic bores me silly, but when Ray Franz was disfellowshipped there were several articles restating Watchtower belief in detail. You'd want to look for those.

For me, this is a non-topic, because I don't care what the Tower teaches on this subject. God knows his own. Christ is the savior or all. How he does that is less of an issue for me than that he does it.

My personal feelings don't mean the issue should be unimportant to you. I'm just tired of it.

Goat

69

Your Experience with Resigning as an Elder

by committeechairman in

i'm considering resigning as an elder.

i'm not planning to fade or stop as one of jehovah's witnesses, just stop serving as an elder.. i have responsibility in the congregation and in circuit, district, rbc, etc.

and i'm completely exhausted.

Old Goat

Eventually some elders wake up and see that they are slaves to an organization, but not necessarily of God. God does not treat his sons as the Watchtower treats elders. Just quit.

10

Why Jehovah's Witnesses Think They're Better Than Us

by God_Delusion in

hello guys and gals!.

have you ever wondered why jehovah's witnesses think they're better than everyone else?.

well, here's pov (point of view) of a jehovah's witness.

Old Goat

You know, I never felt that way. As I saw it, Christians tend to be more obedient to the divine will, but they're aren't "better" in anyway. Christian's aren't perfectly obedient. Non-christians aren't fully disobedient. I always thought God would sort it all out. I still believe that. Best to learn the lesson taught by the book of jonah. God accepts people on grounds we might see as slim.

7

TOP TEN ex-Jehovah's Witness MISTAKES and ERRORS of judgment

by Terry in

jw
friends

1. asking the wrong people the wrong questions in search of the wrong answers based on the wrong presuppositions.. 2. failure to realize you can't drive without a steering wheel by facing the loss of autonomy, individualism and self-respect.. 3. self-righteousness in failing to acknowledge poor choices you made coupled with a lack of curiosity as to why and how you made them.. 4. unwillingness to learn what a category fallacy** is in searching for the "true" religion or "correct" interpretation of scripture, etc.. 5. blindness to the autonomic response mechanisms drilled into you by the watch tower society making non-bias impossible for you.

replacing the jw's with some other nitwit scheme of absolute certainty.).

6. failure to let go of black and white thinking by learning how to see the gray areas between extremes.

Old Goat

Terry,

EXCELLENT.

46

How long did you know TTATT while attending the meetings?

by Iamallcool in

jw
friends

i did not know anything about ttatt while attending the meetings.. .

ttatt=the truth about the truth..

Old Goat

I have a copy, read it already. Bad grammar. Not much of a fix.

46

How long did you know TTATT while attending the meetings?

by Iamallcool in

jw
friends

i did not know anything about ttatt while attending the meetings.. .

ttatt=the truth about the truth..

Old Goat

It makes me sick when they try to compare themselves to the disciples of ancient times. They are not even close.

If we read Paul's letters with an eye for it, we find all the problems that crop up in Witness congregations: Personal difficulties, vanity, a feeling of "specialness," lax behavior. The problem isn't that Witnesses are not like the early, fractured, disagreeable congregations. They are a bit too much like them. We should expect Christian brethren to be a lot like us. No? The real issue is that Watchtower heirarchy replaces scripture with personal opinion, or they express as firm doctrine ideas that have been debated within the Witness comunity for over a century. An Example is the fate of Sodom.

By now we should know that solid arguments can be made for their salvation and for their everlasting destruction. Why not say - a humble man would - we do not know with certainty. It rests in Jesus' hands, and he will do the right thing. That they express personal opinion as divinely inspired doctrine marks them as haughty, self-appointed arbiters of all scriptural matters.

Because the Watchtower has since Rutherford's day formulated a prophetic scheme with themselves at the center, they cannot approach the Faithful and Wise Servant doctrine with clear eyes. Jesus was not describing a prophetic appointment. He was describing the qualities of a faithful servant. Does that mean that the Christian Church doesn't have a governance structure? No. Other verses tell us it does. But Matthew twenty-four does not describe a last-days appointment of a few men to lead the body of Christ into paradise. It only describes two courses of life.

It's time to drop the self-entitlement and really read the Bible.